General Aggregation on how-is/was-CCCamp2019
Personal feedback & wishlists below
- 1 Published coverage
- 2 Personal Opinions
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News Portals / Press Coverage
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DE_DE annejan.com: cccamp2019
Audio (FM/AM-Radio & Podcasts)
- please add URLs and ideally title & some additional info here! Thanks!
- DE_DE RFCE018: Auf dem CCCamp19 – Richtfunk, German Podcast about the wireless part of camp uplink
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- My blog with some pictures from at night CC BY
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This is a place for literally ALL THE things you want to share and discuss with the other participants about your experience during CCCamp2019. Add things you liked or disliked, the latter ideally with some constructive ideas on how to make things better. You can also leave contacts if you want to take active part of the future-change-to-the-better!
Usually this page becomes a discussion - try to write in english if possible, but stay in german if you feel more comfortable. Please add sections/topics once its getting more and more, and keep some readable structure when replying or adding to others.
Please add — ~~~ at the end of your comment to sign it.
Things I liked
- Lights and structures was even more avesome than last time. Burner (talk)
- Overall everything went really well and I liked camp alot Burner (talk)
- Showers and toilets was great and there was enough of them and they was at relatively good condition Burner (talk)
- There was more villages than last time and still all fit well to area. Burner (talk)
- Thanks to that person who hacked so good weather to us ;) Burner (talk)
- No overcrowding in the lecture tents.
- Excellent and very creative Angel-kitchen (Rotkohl-Bällchen hmmm) Fabian (talk) 20:48, 26 August 2019 (CEST)
- Dish washing service was an awesome idea. Saved a lot of time!
- Shower Wonderland was lovely.
- The creatures
- all of the talks I was able to attend
- THM and about:freedom area
- Kemistry lounge
- Great as usual, a huge thank you to the angels and orgasiers. This event is unique in the world.
- Light were really nice this year.
- Choice of food better
- Sanitary infrastructure better (toilets, showers). Nice shower land.
- Everyone is as usual excellent to each other.
- The caravan area was really silent this year Obri (talk)
- No big queues at the Shower Wonderland Obri (talk)
- Passierschein A38 :) — S3lph (talk)
- My children had a lot of fun, my talks attracted a few people. Looking forward to next time (with better preparation on my part). (Hraban)
- Helpful angels
- Angel system. As a first-time Angel, I was only mildly and appropriately confused and found my way easily. Heaven is also all it promises to be: a nice home to return to after a tiring shift to reset your bearings. -Automaton be (talk)
- Shower Wonderland. Although I'm not too keen on getting naked in front of strangers, I really liked the concept a lot and the showers worked flawlessly throughout CCC. The fake grass was a bit soggy, but 100% better than the muddy floors in the other container showers. -Automaton be (talk)
- The app(s). The map and schedule apps were simple and functional. For someone like me who gets lost a lot, the searchable map was really useful. -Automaton be (talk)
- The badge. It is really easy to tinker with the badge if you know (or are willing to learn) a bit of MicroPython. And you can just move on from there. The barrier to entry is low, but you can also go as deep as you want. I like it. Also the compactness and wearableness of the badge make it very flexible and more likely that it'll be used in diverse and interesting ways after camp (at least in my case). -Automaton be (talk)
- The variety of stuff. One of the top activities at CCC imho is just wandering around, exploring villages and projects and having chats with people. There are always hidden treasures and easter eggs. The willingness to share and show-n-tell is great. -Automaton be (talk)
- The DECT system. For the first time, I brought along a DECT phone, pretty much on a whim, but they are *so* useful. The registration system also worked flawlessly. -Automaton be (talk)
- As a co-organiser of a small camp, I really appreciate all the effort that goes into organising something like this. All the compromises, the 'crystal ball' predictions you have to make months/years in advance, the unpredictable behaviour of non-standardized humans messing up your carefully crafted plans. All the complicated laboured stuff that just works perfectly but nobody notices, exactly *because* so much work went into it, please know that it is all very much appreciated. Know that you're making a lasting impact on thousands of people who find new inspiration, energy, friends, ideas,... at CCC. It'll never be perfect, but as we all know perfection is the enemy of done. - Automaton be (talk)
- Music - great music, both in the "train shed" and at camps. In my opinion festivals are not for sleeping - I will sleep if tired enough, music or no music :) Chewie2)
- SaaS - Awesome idea, I would have used it if we had cooked more Chewie2)
- Cooled water available to fill up your bottle Chewie2)
- Belgian Bus - loads of great sessions to join where all equipment was provided Chewie2)
- Shuttle busses worked great. Great with alternatives, both to Gransee and to major cities.
- The marked set up daily right outside the camp, with butcher, fresh vegetables and bakery, was AWESOME
- CERT and their level of readiness was great to see.
- In general lots of fun. Really liked the badge. Got to see old friends, etc.
- CreCrew security fooled me, they laughed, I laughed, we had fun. Great Secu Gom (talk)
- Family village was wonderful for visitors with children. Especially the food was great! -Romf (talk)
Things I disliked
- Ticket prices were too high and created an exclusive event in a way that our culture shouldn't be exclusive imo. The additional hurdle for those who completed the application for a friends ticket to first answer them to reconsider their decision was one step too far to further raise the exclusivity. If someone has gone through the emotional process to ask for support and opens up about their financial situation their suggestion for a price should be accepted without making people reconsider. This has kept a number of less wealthy participants from attending.
- prices for power, water, .. infrastructure are rising so the price for the camp had to rise, too. friends tickets depend on visitors paying more than the regular prizes to compensate, so it's more or less up to you to make someone not that well equipped with money able to get a camp ticket. --Psy (talk)
- Wiki and timeline come available way way way wayyyyy too late. All our villagers had booked flights and holidays at point when we got information when we can come to build things or help with camp. It had been nice to help with build and dismantle things but flights was already booked. Burner (talk)
- Unfortunately some villages didn’t publish their workshops in the wiki.
- Feels that there was more rules than earlier to prevent chaos... Burner (talk)
- But some people broke rules on principle... (like having 5 fridges)
- I dont like when random people take pictures from me without asking me. Years before there was a big group of Engel-people protecting my privacy and thus reducing the privacy violation chaos there was on this 2019 camp. Chaos is awesome - when you dont get your basic human rights hurt forever! Random people taking pictures from me and posting those on the internet where we know cant be removed any more - this is not the "Chaos" most people at CCC like. Respect all gender, respect all people, respect privacy and respect the nature and the resources we get from the earth. Burning diesel-fuel and taking pictures of random people is nothing i would like to see at any time again at a CCC event. You can hack into my hardware if you can, you can run a jammer on all GSM/UMTS/LTE frequencies, you can even run a jammer at the DECT frequencies and kill the eventphone-network for fun. You can run a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_deauthentication_attack on all wifi clients and who have issues you can run around and say haha, use a cable and learn about 802.11w https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11w-2009 . This is the chaos that many people at CCC like! But do not hurt basic human rights like privacy and having a working climate for the next generations living on this planet.
- They never heard that taking pictures of (single) people […] is illegal thanks to the GDPR law in europe. – This is not surprising, since GDPR limiting the taking of pictures is simply not true, at least in Germany. From a legal standpoint, you cannot, by your mere presence, limit others in taking photographs. --stk (talk) 22:57, 9 September 2019 (CEST)
- I undertand point of car driving permit tokens but another hand there had been room to 2-3x amount of cars at build time at field. Burner (talk)
- There was no open gate at car park side of camp even at build time. Burner (talk)
- There were no bottle-drop-off-points with empty crates making life for the Pfand-Engel a lot harder. They had to go through filthy trash while it was perfectly well organised and working at Congress. Fabian (talk) 21:06, 26 August 2019 (CEST)
- There were not all kinds of trash at every trash-container-cluster and the small fixed trash-bins of the Ziegeleipark were overflowing and neither emptied nor complemented with extra bins. Fabian (talk) 21:06, 26 August 2019 (CEST)
- there existed WC containers without water to wash my hands
- there was not enough soap
- since the toiletpaper changed from bad to good one, I assume there was never enough toilet paper planned with, too
- because here is a talk about toilet paper, i would like to suggest to only buy toilet paper made out of recycled paper. But the good one. Its not even more expensive when you buy it in the big packages. Please dont buy toilet paper that is not been made out of recycled paper. It does not make any sense since its quality is awesome this days.
- observed/heard that good toilet paper was only for girl-toilets and not for guy-toilets. Would prefer equal treatment if true.
- talking about sustainability but heating the water for showering with electricity from diesel (which had its warm place sign), seems to be inconsiderate
- music locations THM, Kemistry Lounge and Späti were ok, but for the rest... I had ear protection, the larger one. My symathy to all the families with small children
- Here’s one father. I considered leaving after the first night (Sa 17) and was too tired to find a better location for our tent... Ear protection doesn’t protect from bass quakes. I suggest noise limitations (volume and time). (Hraban)
- that's why there are quiet areas. use em! ;-) --Psy (talk)
- Can informing about quiet areas be improved the next time?
- Parking system was hard to transport stuff and rules very strict, with organisers sometimes shouting. It was much more easier last time.
- Having had a chance to visit of a diesel generator I saw it was loaded at less than 10%. This could be optimised for next time. Diesel generators are noisy, stinky and not very environmentally friendly. Maybe sell the amps or kwh for villages like you rent the tables/chairs.
- see: https://twitter.com/c3_power/status/1167002016033452032 (Thread) --Psy (talk)
- No pissoirs. Pissoirs consume almost no water compared to toilet , this would be a huge amount of water saved considering the number of male hackers pissing their beers and mate ;-)
- I second this. It's also more hygienic.
- ++ The toilet stalls were small and even sober I was unable to sit down without banging my had or/and rubbing myself at the walls of the stalls. Taking a piss without cleaning the toilet walls would be great next time ;). And using the normal toilets standing isn't nice to all people whom need to sit down. Gom (talk)
Feedback for talks is broken: "We're sorry, but something went wrong. We've been notified about this issue and we'll take a look at it shortly." Fabian (talk) 23:54, 26 August 2019 (CEST)Fixed. Fabian (talk) 12:27, 30 August 2019 (CEST)
- The dust caused me to leave the event prematurely. I still have strong problems with my nose and throat.
- No real fire anywhere. It was cold, both visually and spiritual. I know there was a forest fire risk, but I haven't seen any arrangements on the whole camp. — Anon1984 (talk)
- No place to dump grey water Obri (talk)
- It would be great if campers would be allowed in villages Obri (talk)
- Four years ago, there was no problem to find space on the camper-parking, without an extra ticket. This time around, space was kept free for campers arriving late, even during the event and much space was lost by people taking up a lot more space than necessary for their vehicles. It would be nice if there was enough space to keep all people sleeping in their vehicle in close proximity to the event. Fabian (talk) 14:12, 31 August 2019 (CEST)
- campers usually consume more space as tents and there are people wanting to move them during the event. also we do not want ANY vehicle on the campground. --Psy (talk)
- The bottle deposit felt extremely unnecessary and cumbersome. We survived the first one or two days without bottle deposits, why introduce those plastic tokens and the €1 deposit? — S3lph (talk)
- The music at the main bar was horrible for day 1-3. I'm not that kind of person that complains about "wrong" music and I know music taste differs. Still it happened very often that DJs played stuff like "Welcome to St. Tropez". I can listen to mainstream stuff like that on the radio, for camp I would prefer some of the awesome indy music this community creates. It even happened that songs were played multiple times within 10min. Literally sounded like the "2h Party Remix" Playlist from YouTube...
- at least 12 people just from our hackcenter located near the bar, wholeheartedly agree with you. We had to find big speakers and turn them up uncomfortably loud with our own music to preserve our sanity.
- +1 JanHenrik
- Someone (from the orga?) complained that one of the projects of our village (a LED tetrahedron opposite ChaosWest) was "too bright / too white", disturbing hired "light artists". As a result, the project was relocated as requested, moving it further away from the rocket. Still next day the project was switched off several times (with power cords unplugged).
- Acoustic (echos) and air in lecture tents leave room for improvement.
- Vandalism. Someone spray-painted multiple things (part of the complex itself, but also tents). I can only hope the person got permabanned.
- I was frankly shocked to see this vandalism. I really hope it's only one person who did this and who thinks it's OK.
- I was very sad by how much unnecessary hate I felt while taking pictures. I was contacted by someone when I walked around with my camera in my backpack and my tripod in my hand, that I should stop taking pictures. Another time I had the camera around my shoulder and typed on the phone as I stood in a row for dinner and I was asked very rudely by a person passing by that she would not want to have taken pictures of herself under any circumstances. We know the rules at these events very well and really like to follow them. With all the light and art, the event offers more than enough photo spots (which was really nice).
- I was so often photographed by random people who seems to be the first time on a congress and probably the first time in europe. They never heard that taking pictures of (single) people (i was able to check the picture on the camera-screen of the people that have violated my privacy) is illegal thanks to the GDPR law in europe. This is not art. This is violation of privacy rights in europe! Always when i explained that, they answered me that they did not know that. I was sad to have to explain over and over again to random people, that i do not want to be photographed after i have been photographed and can see me on their camera screens. I remember the congress some years ago. The Engel jumped in front of the people that was about to take some random pictures where people could be on. I felt protected back there. Now there are ton of high res pictures on the internet where you can get the faces of random people from this CCC event. This is really sad. Its sad to know that aluburka was right https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5500_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201312291900_-_anonymity_and_privacy_in_public_space_and_on_the_internet_-_aluburka . Just search for examples of privacy violations on twitter and use in the searchbar #CCCamp2019 . There you find pictures like this one(i have chosen not the worst one, you can search for the worst ones by yourself): https://mobile.twitter.com/ash_ketschum/status/1165878645686231041/photo/1 There was so many people running around with their lenses open and the camera hang at their neck. There is no way to know if they are filming hidden all the time or not. Thats why the highest court in germany have decided that you are not allowed to install things that looks like a camera (fake cam pointing on something that is not your own ground). When some lens is pointing at you, you simply cant know if its filming or not because its not your hardware that is pointing at you - its the hardware from some random person you dont know. This changes the way you behave and you stop behaving free like when you do not have the the feeling being filmed. Please camp administration/engel, please protect our privacy at every ccc event. Hopefully the congress at the end of the year and the camp in 4 years would be like before and there wont be any people around making pictures of yourself without any permission.
- From an angel picking up garbage after the event:
- The main bar and the DJ booth were decorated with plastic flowers and leaves. A lot of it broke, fell to the ground and got trampled. Especially the palm leaves broke into little fibers, nearly indistinguishable from the grass and impossible to pick up. Microplastic in the making. Please stop using plastic decorations like these.
- So many cigarette stubs. Other festivals are already selling pocket ashtrays for 1€, idk whether these were sold anywhere on the camp?
- A common complaint from the foreigners visiting that I spoke to, and myself, is that Germans really like to speak German, and that there was a lot of information given only in German. I am fine with multiple languages, but please do not let German be the only language you inform in. Examples (but not the only examples) of information only given in German: Evacuation plan, LOC plan for downrig/return of hw, vocal information about merch queue organization.
- There was a mix of tightly packed tent area, and unused campground (around the Angel tent and towards the parking area). Seems odd.
- Talks seemed to be of lower quality this years than others.
- Talks given in German, then dubbed to english by translators have little value to those of us consumer which as not used to dubbing of speech like you are in Germany. Subtitles would be equally good. The best is to have the talk in English, even with a heavy accent.
- Hard narcotics was being consumed on camp, I don't want to be around that stuff. I observed it around Milliways, not giving them the blame, but that was the general camp area I observed it.
- The way feedback is collected/responded/dealt with. It feels discouraging to me if a single person keeps commenting on a lot of the feedback. I'd prefer if you'd first collect feedback and then deal with it in a structured fashion, in which the persons giving/receiving feedback are not pushed into a defense situation
- We've discussed in a bigger round that the smoking situation is poorly dealt with and could be improved. There are no smoke free areas, you always had to expect someone smoking around you, often really close - with no awareness that this might be annoying. I know it is outdoor, but it would be amazing if there was a better way dealing with smoking, especially under public tents/sitting opportuinities eventually someone next to you would start smoking, some "official" consensous where/when/when not to smoke would be amazing. Especially with the sheer amount of children around...
- Too much politics. Did not like seeing the antifa flag on the big tower when I arrived. I also heard about some tent getting spraypainted because they had a sign that some anarchist didn't like. Maybe figure out a way to calm down on politics and focus on tech.
- There is not more or less politics than the last 20 years before. Just take a look at the 18C3 Logo or the roots of the CCC. --Bediko (talk)
- There isn't something like an "unpolitical" CCC-Event. We are a political organization. Just take a look at the history of CCC (https://blogs.taz.de/hausblog/vor-20-jahren-der-ccc-gruendet-sich-in-der-taz/) — Td00 (talk)
- Regarding angels@bar The "bottle sorting" behind the bars was badly organized. At first, it wasn't sole bottle sorting, it also was refilling the bar and pre cooler, removing the deposit from the bar and washing up the classes. Quite often the shift coordination forgot to explain these jobs. The result was, that some shifts had to clean up the backlog the previous shift left them. Also the shifts in the back often had no or only one angel asigned, while four to six people where at the bar selling stuff. This was a serious mismatch of workforce, six people are way faster at selling booze than one person can restock. Also, the bar missed supervising til evening and some unexpierenced angels tend to mess up hygine and organization. Having one somewhat experienced person for coordination of booth bar and bar backend shift could have helped a lot. And well, heaven did not send angels wehn I asked :/Gom (talk)
- Difficult to get there, because it's in the outback. Luckily there was a shuttle bus, but only starting Monday and ending one day after the event. I considered to help with build-up, but I only did so one day, Tuesday, because I only arrived on Monday. Yes, there are public buses. Some only going from Zehdenick, which is not so good connected by train as Gransee, some only three times in the morning, some which you have to order 90 minutes in advance (at that time the long distance train to Berlin hasn't even reached Berlin! At that time one doesn't even know, if on gets the commuter train from Berlin to Zehdenick, if it will be late or not), some have different schedules during school times versus non-school times. You first have to research when there is school in Brandenburg. Another comment in here preferred Tempelhof because of the infrastructure already in place there. Additionally it would be easier to get there. --Cccamp (talk)
- It was sometimes a bit hard to get drinking water. The tapwater/sparkling water "source" at the dishwashing place was great, but there usually was a large queue and it was quite a walk for most people. I know that water was a scarce resource but at least enough water for drinking should be available when it is as hot as it was. -Romf (talk)
- Information was hard to find, e.g. that you should check the event blog, or that there was an IRC channel at hackint (#camp). Many people I talked to didn't even know that this IRC channel existed.
- Diesel generators are really dystopic. Electric cars were being charged from the grid while inside diesel was used to power mostly useless stuff. A lot of equipment that was meant for the night (blinking / LED) was on during the day. No PV modules to make use of the sun. Quite a shame. — Anon1984 (talk)
- It would be really nice to find a new location with a little bit more pre-existing infrastructure. That would considerably lighten the load of the build team and be more sustainable. Having several "Scheiße-Multiplexer" on site and hauling tons of water both ways just feels plain wrong. The decommissioned Zentralflughafen Tempelhof (THF) in Berlin could be a viable option. Fabian (talk) 20:55, 26 August 2019 (CEST)
- Sehr schön im Sinne der Nachhaltigkeit wäre es, auf zukünftigen camps Trenntoiletten (Komposttoiletten) einzusetzen. Fabian (talk) 21:14, 26 August 2019 (CEST)
- A clear NO from me on that. The water toilets are great in that they get the smelly stuff away from the camping area quickly, even with the huge usage frequence we have, and not stink up the whole area like chemical toilets or kompost stuff do. Haegar (talk)
- You might want to inform yourself. With a properly ventilated installation, there are no olfactive issues at all. It might be a bigger problem to mobilise enough for-rent-toilets for this size of event. But if we don't innovate by creating the demand, or if need be, build it, who the fuck will? Fabian (talk) 14:27, 31 August 2019 (CEST)
- please make the deposit rules clear to everybody, and apply it beginning of day 1.
- Yes, for example make it clear, that electronic devices should be put in the containers for electronic devices. I know at least from 2 people that have thrown away their electronic waste into the regular bin. There is a picture online where you can see a really long network cable (or many network cables) been thrown away in the regular waste. :(
- Put chiptune/8bits music in the toilet. It would be more friendly to cover toilet noises ;-)
- but toilet noises are important! as in that their disgustiveness install the comforting sense that we are all the same shitting animals. 😁 Trying to hide that seems horrible. Would not say no to chiptunes, though.
- Please no more noises, I like to take my shit in relative silence.
- Would have liked shorter ways to toilets or tighter mesh of toilets, but prefer longer walks to Non-Water toilets.
- Something I can heartily recommend is to bring a bike to cover the sometimes substantial distances. The dev/bikes scheme was a great idea, but nothing beats having your ride handy to just hop on and off. Maybe an idea for next time would be to enable people to rent/loan a bike for the whole length of the camp (like the chairs and tables) -Automaton be (talk)
- Commercial Food Booths were very noticeably lower in quality than various assembly kitchens.
- Agree. I only tasted the icecream, and it wasn’t very good.
- Had burgers, pizza, some nice indian food and taccos. Loved all of them, nothing to complain about from my side. --Psy (talk)
- Memory is a bit hazy, but as I remember it, the food 4y ago was better, but also (a lot) more expensive. This time round I had some uncomplicated lentil soup, some uncomplicated chili and various other things for a great price from the commercial stalls. I'm not complaining. — Automaton be (talk)
- I want to say a BIG THANKS to all people involved in "make it happen". Thanks to Orga, Crew, Angels and all other Volunteers who made this great event happen.
- Nudity: Well, I'm somewhat neutral about it, but I also was a little irritated. Some folks (all males) seemed to use the opportunity to present their self (their dicks) in front of the wonderland. There is a fine difference between being naked in public and stretching oneself in the direction of incoming people.. Gom (talk)
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