Feedback

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Revision as of 17:24, 5 January 2020 by Nwng (talk | contribs) (Engelsystem suggestions)


General Aggregation on how-is-36C3

(find general Feedback below)


News Portals / Press Coverage

International

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German

TV Segments

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German

Blogposts & Microblogging

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German

Video - Youtube


Audio (FM/AM-Radio & Podcasts)

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German


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Images / Photos

There is usually a shared Flickr-Group pls add URL.

Collected wishes and Ideas from c3wishes

The #Wishtisch was collecting wishes and ideas of the participants on 36c3 in person.

You find them in the wiki in German language under Projects:CCC_wishes:wishes

Personal Opinions on 36C3

This is a place for literally ALL THE things you want to share with the other participants about your experience during 36C3. Add things you liked or disliked, the latter ideally with some constructive ideas on how to make things better. You can also leave contacts if you like to take active part of the change-to-the-better!

Usually this page becomes much of a discussion - try to write in english if possible, but stay in german if you feel more comfortable. Please add sections once its getting more and more, and keep some readable structure when replying to others.

Signatures

Please end your statements with a signature (just add "--~~~~" at the end of your text). It will look like the following: --Psy (talk) 13:08, 5 January 2020 (CET)


example topic

  • an opinion
    • a reply on that
    • another reply on that
      • a reply to the reply
    • an addition to the opinion
      • an addition to the addition
  • another opinion
    • a reply on that
      • and so on...

Gender, non-male voices

  • Heralds should make an effort to include non-male voices in the Q&A. I was very disappointed to see the herald's reaction at the end of the David Graeber talk. A woman in the audience asked for a female voice to be included in the Q&A. The herald declined, in a rather dismissive tone. Unfortunately, the speaker did nothing to include a broader diversity of voices either. Sausage party, again. We have to do better than that.
    • I'd rather go for a publicly visible random choice of mics. I think it could be hard to oversee the situation in big locations. Also, what about LGBTQ*? How to tell that there's a cis|trans|* on the mic?
      • I dont know the specific situation (but I will check the video to get an idea). Anyhow I wondered how the mics are chosen overall. Maybe a text solution via smartphone would be more fair. Easy to implement and giving people attending via stream a better possibility as well. Plus no chance for (unknown) privileges

Required knowledge for talks

  • It would be great to write a few words on required knowledge in the description of the talks. There were talks that sounded like being suitable for a broad audience. Turned out that you won't understand anything without very, very advanced coding skills. Of course that talks are awesome for a lot creatures, anyhow this would avoid some frustrations for the others
    • Speakers do have a 'foundations'-slider (0-100%) in frab when submitting a talk. Maybe this slider can be translated in some form to the Fahrplan to indicate talks with less required prior knowledge.
    • +1

Vehicles are getting out of hand

  • There seems to be a huge shift in the background of the visitors. Much more "regular" people and less nerds. This leads to talks with almost empty halls while all other areas are packed. With this background all that vehicles are getting really frustrating. You can say "be excellent to each other" as often as you want, this wont change anything in the fact that vehicles in crowds just does not work out. To all the scooters that have been there forever we're now dealing with a lot of kids, almost not able to control that things. As well as many escooters that are way to fast for the situation. And this years there is a really high amount of skateboards and longboards. Come on, longboards. You can't control them agile. This is ridiculous, seriously.
    • "Much more "regular" people and less nerds."
      Do you know how a Nerd looks like? I don't think that just because people look like everyday people, that they are. Nerd culture is huge, and I mean really huge. So I don't really see your point here.
      With the individual traffic i agree with you, maybe we need public transport on the congress.
    • I agree no need for stereotyping, problem seems the amount of vehicles that lead to dangourous situations:
      • parking obstacles
      • fast vehicles and pedestrians seem to cause dangerous and/or frightening situations
    • I'm confused about your conclusion, that there are more regular people. I mean, yes I think this too but I don't think that this leads to empty talks, because I experienced tourists as more talk interested and nerds as more interested in the community, not streamed workshops (SOS), etc.. Anyway I din't have much problems with the amount of vehicles, but it should be clarified that pedestrians have the priority. I had some annoying discussions if this is the case.
    • ignoring the remarks about visitor types, vehicles I found problematic: bicycles, and unlit scooters (and people on scooters and looking at their phones). Even a relatively simple LED stripe at the front makes it a lot easier to see from a distance that something is moving fast.
      • I was at all three Leipzig Congresses with bicycle. 20 days, no problems except some "not so friendly people" which think its helpful to talk loud and unfriendly about bicycle drivers. Scooters are nice, but If you want to carry thinks they are useless. I have to big bicycle bags and can carry a lot of tech stuff for the stages. People have reasons why they choose they vehicle.
        • People have reasons for every behaviour. This does not mean the behaviour is respectful and without danger for other people though.
    • maybe something like a no-vehicle time between something like 17:00-22:00 (except for working angels)
    • I thought, there is already a "no bicycle" rule existing. How about the ongoing e-scooter situation? Does secu/cert have any statistics? I feel unsafe with so many fast moving vehicles.
      • If there is a rule, it's obviously not enforced, there were really, really many bikes. Security needs to handle this situation then. Or already the angels at the entrance, it's not like bikes get smuggled in a backpack. Also I think as well that the e-scooters are a big problem, it's only a matter of time to get the first big incident caused by speeding
      • I wish a "have a light on your scooter" rule
      • Do we want/need e-scooter?
  • In general, pedestrians should have priority over vehicles, but there's one exception to that: Please give angels a wide berth when they're transporting heavy stuff on a pallet jack or cart. There were countless instances of me having to stop my pallet jack very quickly (which is a rather unergonomic thing to do) to avoid crushing the feet of visitors who were stumbling directly towards me completely oblivious of their surroundings, or being rammed by kids on scooters.
    • +1
  • I never had major issues with any vehicle and I was wandering around a *lot*. But I agree that people should stop riding their full sized bike in the building and that some warning mechanisms like a light might be a good idea as well as some kind of "advisory speed limit". But in my experience 99% of the mobilized people took care.
  • There should be more workshops to attach lights to vehicles like scooters. I never had problems with the scooters with lights and for some spoonie and/or disabled folks it's the only way to get around.

Noise

  • The overall acoustic noise level everywhere on congress (not just in party areas) seem to have increased in the last years and for me is quite difficult now. There are many art/music/party projects/spaces in Hall3 and Hall4 that constantly emit a lot of noise where I am not sure if this is reasonable for most people and the purpose of the communication congress. For examples: the Studio Datscha produces huge noise pollution for a small number of participants/visitors - can't we have such projects in different halls as the assemblies such as in Hall5 (I do not know the artists nor the art, thus do not judge their contribution/significance)?; the music at Späti is entertaining the whole glass hall - could we find another space for a punk club to reduce the volume level considerably in common area but keep this opportunity for people who like this?; the chaos west stage transformed into a loud disco, while there where still talks in Borg -> can't people just go to the disco area and/or wait until late night/after the talks?
  • I think the QuietQube is/was a good, nice idea. (I think I haven't seen something similiar at 34C3.) And the implementation of it was also good. But some of the chairs (or specifically the "chair feet") produced noise almost every time they were moved, except for straight up or down movement, but that is and was often difficult. It might be a good idea to get some cleanly installable and (for easier teardown) cleanly removable "felt pads" (deutsch: "Filzgleiter") for the part/portion of chairs which tend to make relatively load noises even when only moved slightly.
    • Agreed, the QuietQube was very nice. However I did not understand the rules and that there were even more quiet areas available. When I sat there to recharge, several groups of people joint the room to have a chat, which I felt inappropriate at that time. But since this was intended, the signs at the door and/or the wiki could be more specific.
      • A room at congress, and particularly a room with a special set of rules, has to be run be someone or a group in order to maintain it. (Bad counter-example: in the room of silence at glass hall the rules weren't clear and nobody was really in charge and that resulted in a couple of conflicts.) QQ was run by c3auti and they had their office there, therefore there had to be group conversations. Sure, sometimes they should have been softer. Also, it was intended as a hackcenter-area where people could exchange, just without the music and the blinkiness. Please feel free to propose and maintain a 'c3library' place, where group conversations would be forbidden, at future events. c3auti would love that too, it is just that c3auti didn't have the capacity at 36c3 to do both and being faced with a 'copy-paste-congress'-policy, we preferred a QQ concept to a 'c3library' concept. --Benjaminwand (talk) 13:10, 5 January 2020 (CET)
    • Yes, the QuietQube was awesome. Actually I discovered it the first time directly in case of a hard panic attack that came over me in a session in M3. I read the ruleset and saw, that chats are allowed down there. A friend of mine started to talk in 'normal' volume and I asked them to be a bit more silent. They were confused and said 'Hey, the rule set says it's allowed to talk'. I think it would be better, to rewrite the rule set and to communicate to speak with lowered voice or so. But I must say, that most people were very quiet, when I've been there - so most of my expierences are positive. I have also tried one of those other quiet rooms, but that was a much worse experience. I've been there for perhaps 10 minutes or so and in that time about 4 or 5 people, who left the room and slammed the door. Not that they dropped the door, but it was a heavy door and the didn't close it quietly. I mean, sorry, but those people used that room to calm down and then they behaved that bad when they left the room. So this was really much more disturbing compared to the experiences I made in the QuietQube. But alltogether I was really happy about those quiet areas - really really helpful.

Content Warnings for talks

While not an issue for me this congress, I have been to talks in the past which should have had content warnings. Love, CyBorgs, Art and Open Source-... for example had graphic imagery of cutting out skin.

Please give speakers an option to set content warnings for their talks and have them displayed on the talks info page.

Being excellent to each other

  • Smoking seems to be an issue, at least during parties etc. I've seen many people smoking indoors in several occasions. During the Mecklenbörger concert, in the Lounge, etc. This is not excellent, in fact this is an attack on other peoples health. I know security is looking for people smoking but I've also seen people roll another cigarette once security was gone. It may be allowed to smoke in Saxony, other than e.g. in NRW but I have a choice to enter those bars or not. At a venue, of which I know it is going to be free of smoke I expect people to stick to that. This is not criticism towards the CCC or PL as all the involved parties are doing their job to keep people from smoking indoors. But I'd like to encourage smokers to think of how invasive and abusive your behavior is towards non smokers, not mentioning the health aspects.
    • +1 Turning your addiction into my health risk is not a nice thing to do.

Bandwidth management for visitor transfers

In some cases (e.g. when a talk in a huge hall ends), it apparently necessary (#forsecurityreasons) to limit visitor movement to one direction for the connecting passages. There doesn't seem to be a way to allow a low-latency visitor transfer in one direction while a high-bandwidth visitor transfer in the opposite direction. This can make it difficult to get to self-organized sessions if they are performed in parts of the building that are dependent on the connecting passage due to the building topology.

Suggestions in descending order of assumed effectiveness/effort ratio:

A tool could be developed which keeps track of the expected pairs of timeslot and connecting passage where an exclusive allocation in favour of one direction will be necessary. Taking into account the building topology, this data could be processed in order to identify high-risk pairs of building part and timeslot for the start of a self-organized session. Then, session organizers can use the tool to better coordinate where and when to register their sessions.

A tool could be developed which uses similar data to route visitors or suggest moving to a room earlier than for session start.

Indoor navigation without a digital device

Some simple, glowing/conspicuous signs where some stuff is located and where to go would be really helpful:

  • In which hall am I?
  • Where is this $passage leading?
  • Where's the next bi/uni toilet?
  • Where to go for borg, ada etc.?

I know that there's are some printed maps but they have to be found as well. For example a simple big projection stating "BORG =>" on the wall of a hall would be sufficient.

Hygiene

  • Direkt am Eingang für hustende Personen (evtl. kostenlosen) Mundschutz (evtl. in schwarz statt weiss) anbieten, damit sich die Krankheitserreger nicht ganz so schnell via Tröpfcheninfektion verteilen können.
    • nette Idee, Wirksamkeit ist so Mittel, braucht Engel, wenn kostenlos hoher "nehm ich mal mit"-Effekt. Ich kann es mit am Späti oder im CERT vorstellen (c3gelb/kritis)
  • Engelessen evtl. besser von einigen (möglichst gesunden) Engeln mit Nitril/Latexhandschuhen ausgeben lassen, da die Kellen & Löffel sehr schnell sehr schmandig waren und auch wenn nur eine Person sich nicht die Hände wäscht und Krankheitserreger an den Händen trägt, jeder, der sich das Essen nach dieser Person nimmt, die Erreger dann auch an den Händen hat und weiterverteilen kann.
    • Die Essenshygiene war an den "Asia-Imbissen" auch sehr fragwürdig. Ich meine die Stände an denen es nur die Nudeln und Frühlingsrollen gab. Handschuhe wurden zwar getragen. Mit diese wurden aber sowohl die Frühlingsrollen in die Verpackungen gegeben, wie auch alles Geld kassiert.
      • Leider sind die externen Dienstleister oder Bediensteten der Messe/des Messecaterers dort nicht in unserem Einflussbereich. Falls wir dazu mehr Infos als 1x bekommen, können wir uns mit Stand/Tag/Zeit mal an die Firma wenden (c3gelb/kritis)
        • habe an tag 1 Abends beobachtet, wie die Dame am Asianudelstand Halle 3 https://36c3.c3nav.de/l/c:0:509.5:198.4/ routinemäßig mit denselben Handschuhen Essen abgefüllt und abkassiert hat. Ansonsten kamen (mir) die Stände jedoch „normal“ vor. —Cfstras (talk) 16:08, 5 January 2020 (CET)
    • Ausgabe durch Engel ist generell hygienischer (c3gelb/kritis)
    • Küchenengel sollte immer gesund sein, zumindest aber wissen, wie sie ihr Verhalten anpassen, um auch bei nicht schlimmer Krankheit (z.B. ein Schnupfen) "sauber" und gut engeln zu können. Dafür bieten wir der #Frikadellendiplom an. Diesmal 3 Termine, knapp 100 Teilnehmer (c3gelb/kritis)
    • Handschuhe sind Hygienefallen. Details dazu gerne beim Frikadellendiplom, direkt oder demnächstTM in einer c3gelb-Veröffentlichung (c3gelb/kritis)
    • Die Handhygiene beim Essen ist Teamwork. Ein WC mit Waschbecken befindet sich links und rechts je im zugang zum "Fresswürfel", der Himmelsküche (c3gelb/kritis)


  • (evtl.) Desinfektionsengel, die oft und von vielen Personen angefasste Gegenstände wie Türklinken zwischendurch desinfizieren, um die Verbreitung von Krankheitserregern einzudämmen.
    • +1
    • Die Plastik/metallenen Türgriffe sind ohnehin eher Keimarm, sie bieten wenig Wachstumspotential. Eine Desinfektion ist hier nicht zielführend. Regelmäßiges Händewaschen ist die beste Maßnahme.
    • DESINFEKTION macht nur tot, waschen (30 sec, wasser, Seife, viel Reibung (!!!) ) macht weg. Das ist mehr gut. #WashYourHands
    • Ein Eindämmen geht nur (!), wenn möglichst viele Leute sich jeweils gut verhalten. c3gelb nimmt gerne Hilfe bei der Aufbereitung der Informationen an. Wir haben auch schon Kontakte zu comiczeichnenden etc, aber zu viele Einzelprojekte. Falls jemensch Lust hat, da was mitzumachen, sind treibende Kräfte willkommen. (c3gelb/kritis)
  • Der "Vampire Cough" sollte genau so beworben werden, wie die 6-2-1 Regel (Wiki und zwischen den Talks). The amount of people coughing into the room is too damn high.
    • lieber in die Luft als in die Hand, solange man niemanden direkt ins Gesicht hustet. Tröpfcheninfektionen verbreiten sich über die Hände, nicht der Luft. Deshalb ist das Husten in die Luft auch hygienischer als in den Arm, den Arm berührt man halt wieder. Deshalb sollte man nur in den Arm husten wenn zu viele Menschen in der Nähe sind, sonst in die freie Luft.
      • Diese Aussage ist faktisch falsch, selbstverständlich funktioniert die Verbreitung auch über den Luftweg. Ja, "nur" einige Meter. Aber auch 3 Meter sind dann doch sehr viele Menschen, wenn man bedenkt, wie eng man in einem Talk sitzt. Von "nur direkt ins Gesicht" kann hier absolut keine Rede sein. Und es ist eklig, wie oft mir in den Nacke gehustet wurde. Und ja, ich war dann am letzten Tag krank, trotz penibler Hygiene und Desinfektion der Hände. Wenn jemand in einer Halle in eine leere Ecke hustet ist mir das natürlich egal. Aber wie es im eigentlichen Post schon steht: Aufmerksam machen zwischen den Talks, das impliziert "in den Sälen" https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr%C3%B6pfcheninfektion
    • Ebola-Zäune haben etwa 2m Abstand und reichen aus. Aufgrund der sehr geringen Luftfeuchte überleben die Erreger aber nicht lange. In den Nacken husten ist trotzdem doof. Menschen, die diese Infos voranbringen möchten, können sich gerne bei uns melden (c3gelb/kritis)
  • Desinfektionsspender auch außerhalb der Toiletten wären zur Erkältungszeit sehr nützlich. Vor allem müssten diese auch adäquat befüllt werden. Auf den Toiletten gab es nur Handdesinfektion der Kategorie "begrenzt viruzid", diese sind völlig unwirksam gegen Erkältungsviren
    • Generell unterstützt c3gelb die Meinung: nur richtig TM Hände waschen. Lange genug, genug Reibung und mit warmem Wasser und Seife.
      • DESINFEKTION enthält ca 80% Alkohol. Bei einer Verdünnung von nur 5% wird diese Flüssigkeit weniger wirksam bis unwirksam. Dies liegt u.A. an der notwenidgen passenden Konzentration, um über den osmotischen Druck in Erreger hineinzugelangen und sie so zum Zerplatzen zu bringen. Das Abtöten geht auch nur mit der richtigen Konzentration. ABER man bekommt die Hände nur bei sehr gewissenhafter Anwendung der Händetrocknungsgeräte so trocken, dass keine Verdünnung stattfindet. Ich kenne keine nicht ausgebildeten Menschen, die Desinfektion richtig anwenden. Wenn du nerdkomplatible Informationen mit herstellen magst, melde dich bei uns (c3gelb/kritis)
  • The water dispensers were great, but could we install acrylic glass plates below the apertures again next time, like at cccamp19? I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem particularily hygienic to me when people touch the apertures with their bottles.
    • NO! I am very sorry to tell you, that I observed multiple times (as in permanent) people @camp, who tried to "screw" their bottle in the acrylic glass. That makes things even worse. So people didn't understood the signs @camp, many didn't even bother to read. Those conditions are taken into account in evaluating the dispensers. (c3gelb/kritis)


  • +1 for more pest control. I'm ill since 01. Jan. But I'd be very careful with too much behavioral rules, for example promoting the "Vampire Cough" in 6+2+1. I'd rather pledge for enabling people with providing appropriate knowledge and tools.
    • The vampire cough is actually knowledge as most people just don't think about spreading germs with their hands. If it is okay to tell people to take a shower it should be okay to tell them to not make other people sick IMHO. What "tools" are you thinking about?

First-timer meetups

As first timers we had a very hard time at the congress. It seemed like people visit congress in their bubbles and pretty much stick to that bubble the whole time. When trying to talk to people we received almost only rude, even some openly aggressive responses. I suffer from physical handicaps, and when walking sudden stops can cause hurt, and I can't count the times that my path was cut off by rude people not taking care of a slow walker, and the same happened with vehicles as well. My partner who is female identified felt very uncomfortable, because the only attention she got was objectifing and sexualized (the word she used was actually creepy). I think the congress has gotten too big and at the moment it is not a safe place. There needs to be more structures to guide first timers and make them feel comfortable. At the moment, that slogan "be excellent to each other" felt more like a mocking joke. This is not how people treat each other with respect.

  • I'm really sorry to hear what happened to you and your partner, this are problems that needs to be addressed. Just a little hint from me: There are "chaos pat_innen" for inexperienced visitors, maybe they could help next time a little
  • I'm sorry that happened. Did you involve the awareness team? Maybe they can help with the rude and creepy people. My experience this year as a woman was one creep and many many awesome people. When I had questions I got answers and everybody was incredibly friendly. But if I just met the creep it would have been an awful congress for me. This needs to be addressed. We shouldn't accept people that are creepy and have bad social behaviour just because they are great at coding or whatever skill. We need to address this and exclude them when they refuse to behave better.
  • Hi, for first time visitors we have the mentors (chaospatinnen / chaosmentors). Usually one experienced angel gets 4-6 newcomers and there is also a whole assembly for meetups and rest. Anyhow, we heared quite a lot from first time visitors, that they did not know of the mentoring program. Therefore I'm going to get this feedback to the mentors. Gom (talk)

Social interaction, meeting people

Ich fühle mich meist mehr oder weniger hilflos und etwas einsam auf dem Kongress. Es ist mein 3. Mal und ich würde mich auch als "Nerd" bezeichnen. Es ist nicht so als ob ich nicht mit den meisten Leuten da über interessante Dinge reden könnte. Ich bin aber ehr introvertiert und alle Leute da sehen so beschäftigt aus, man fühlt sich meist nicht eingeladen Menschen anzusprechen. Gleichzeitig weiß ich auch das es dort viele Menschen gibt welche ebenso oder noch stärker introvertiert sind und es ihnen ggf. sogar unangenehm ist von Fremden angesprochen zu werden. Dies ist der Sache nicht grade zuträglich. Leider habe ich auch keinen "Freundeskreis" den ich als Ausgangspunkt für weitere Kontakte nehmen könnte. Nur wenige einzelne Leute. Ich schätze es sehr das auf Inklusion geachtet wird und alles so frei und doch so friedlich zugeht. Aber es braucht meiner Erfahrung nach noch mehr Gelegenheiten um fremde Menschen zusammenzubringen um sich kennen zulernen. Alle zusammen in eine Halle zu stecken reicht irgendwie nicht.

  • Du bist nicht alleine. Ich habe mal Kongressbändchen gezählt. Ich war das 9. Mal auf dem Kongress und Kontakte zu knüpfen war immer noch schwierig. Ich habe dieses Jahr im Vorfeld auf social media gefragt, wer noch da ist und ich habe mein DECT mitgenommen und das auch so kommuniziert. Ich habe ignoriert, dass ich Angst hatte ich sei uninteressant und Leute wollen mich nicht sehen und hab proaktiv gegen mein Gefühl Menschen kontaktiert, die ich nur auf social media kannte oder erst ein mal gesehen habe. Letztes Jahr dachte ich vielleicht wären so introvertiert Sticker nicht schlecht mit "sprich mich bitte an". Es gab auch Sticker mit Freifeld: "I want to talk about X". Was auch ganz gut funktioniert ist engeln, da man so doch oft ins Gespräch kommt. Es hilft aber sehr zu wissen, dass es sehr sehr vielen so geht wie mir/dir
  • Vielleicht könnte man hier mal über ein "erweitertes Patenprogramm" nachdenken. Bisher ist das ja eher für Firsttimer kommuniziert. Ich kann mir aber gut vorstellen, dass ein Angebot für Alleinreisende echt cool wäre. Am Ende reicht ja vielleicht sogar einfach eine Wiki-Seite auf der sich Menschen eintragen können, die Anschluss suchen. Die meisten Kontakte haben wir tatsächlich beim Essen gemacht, durch die wenigen Tische kamen wir da "zwangsläufig" in Gespräche. Ansonsten konkreter: Hinterlass hier doch irgendwelche Kontaktdaten wenn du magst (Twitter o.Ä.), dann connected man sich für nächstes Jahr, unser Grüppchen freut sich immer über neue Bekanntschaften.
  • Im Rahmen von c3auti habe ich ein Treffen durchgeführt das zum Teil zum Ziel hatte dass Leute einander kennen lernen können, "Autismus Nerdtalk". In vergleichbarer Art könnten Personen die Workshops halten versuchen drauf zu achten (auch) einen interaktiven Teil zu machen (und nicht nur einen verdeckten Vortrag) um den Austausch und das Kennenlernen zwischen Congress-Teilnehmenden zu fördern. --Benjaminwand (talk) 13:12, 5 January 2020 (CET)

No dogs on the compound

  • Except for trained service animals with the appropriate paperwork, i do not want to see any dogs on buildup, congress and teardown ever again. My stuff in Hall 4 got pissed on, the caravan park and parking lot became a stinky minefield and my food was eaten off my plate in the angel restaurant. MikeTango (talk) 11:05, 3 January 2020 (CET)
    • I like dogs, but I can fully understand what you mean. Allergic People or People which just don't like dogs don't have the choise to "ignore" them, so forbidding them seems legit.
    • +1. Aren't dogs even forbidden? I was really confused how many (not-service) dogs I could see this year. Events like this are stressful for them as well. Angels at the entrance should have a better eye on this
    • Documentation and certificates are against the ideas of the congress, also some people have service dogs that are not officially recognized (like because of some national or health insurance bureaucracy). To let only approved dogs in, would keep those people out of the congress. So no we are definitely not going to do this.
      Unfortunately we cannot do anything against people who abuse this system.
      • I think it could be at least communicated better. Its hidden deep in the FAQ. A clear "No dogs allowed except servicedogs!" during the order process could open some peoples eyes. Just saying "we cant to anything about people exploiting the system" is ignorant and not solution oriented towards the harmed visitors
      • OK, since you're apparently speaking for the organizers on that topic then next time please don't ask me for my drivers license when i drive the truck for LOC. Or the forklift. There are some things that require proper documentation, one of them being health and safety
        • Yeah that is totally the same thing. From now on every vehicle needs proper TÜV and the driver an legitimate drivers license.
          And funny enough, you actually don't need an license to drive an forklift (on private ground), its just a bad idea because insurance companies don't like that at all.
          • You can do all kinds of mad stuff at home with your forklift and let your dogs crap over your own lawn. The Expo requires licenses present and only wants to see them because there have been too many fuckups. Getting my gear soaked in piss and having my food eaten by someone's pooch was one fuckup too much, too. Licensed dog or gtfo.
      • Should you be really speaking for the organizers (PL), I'd like you to consider that this is not a matter of dog piss and dog poo on someones' clothes, but a dog being allowed into kitchen premises- by one of the obviously professional kitchen staff working in the angel's kitchen. (This is a fact witnessed by several people, no hypothesis and can be confirmed by the hygiene team which have been notified during the event.) From a hygienic point of view there is absolutely NO WAY this should happen. Trained dog or not. Chaos or not. Animals != kitchen area! In some situations, documentation and certificates are the basis for responsibly, transparently and accountably organizing an event for ~17k participants. If you want to look into the microbiological/ parasitological perspective, the key words "zoonosis", "natural reservoir" and "cross infection" will help you with your search.
        • Looking at the profile I can't find any sign of being actually involved at the organisation...
        • I'm not orga, just know the rules. The whole area is called Heavens Kitchen. not just the kitchen itself, i agree that dogs shouldn't be in a kitchen. But the eating area is a whole other thing, we have a lot of angels with disabilities so their service dogs are allowed there too. And I still stand with my point, we can't see if someone needs theirs service dog or not. And our health system is fucked. So to be inclusive, we need to allow undocumented service dogs.
        • We are also talking about the caravan park, the logistics hall (a construction site under our own rules, with no dogs allowed by our own rules) and so on. No documents = not a service animal.
    • Are you sure it was a dog pissing on your stuff?
      • Caught it in the act.
  • +1 had a discussion with someone during teardown. I made a mistake and it was close to hurting his free roaming dog. By all means, animals and construction work don't mix well.

Keep the lights in the bathrooms non-blinken and white

  • The bathrooms, especially the rooms with the sinks, are a place for hygiene. Washing, makeup, brushing one's teeth, re-setting contact lenses - we've got so many people with special sensory needs that this should be a no-brainer. MikeTango (talk) 11:05, 3 January 2020 (CET)

unisex restrooms

  • Declaring half the restrooms as unisex and the other half as binary seems rather pointless to me. I prefer unisex restrooms, but if the next one is 150m away, while there's a binary one right next to me, I'll just grumble and deal with the binary one as I would out there in the real world. In the end, noone will get thrown out of any restroom if they act like they belong there, so we might as well make it official and declare all of them as unisex.
    • It's not about "not getting kicked out" but feeling safe. Personally I really don't care if all genders use the same bathroom. But there are people out there feeling more safe to use a binary bathroom and we should respect this
    • This is a lose-lose situation. Some people prefer unisex restrooms, others prefer binary restrooms, others don't care at all. We have to work with what's available in the building, so the current practice of converting around 50% of the binary restrooms to unisex is the logical thing to do to offend the least amount of people possible. Some will always be offended, independent of what we do.
  • I think the existing system (half binary, half unisex) is great. --Benjaminwand (talk) 13:12, 5 January 2020 (CET) +1 --ruru4143 (talk) 17:23, 5 January 2020 (CET)

standby angels

  • It would be nice to have more chairs in the "angels looking for work" section of the heaven lounge, to avoid overflows into the "standby angels only" section.
    • We already have placed all the tables and chairs of that type there that are available. The next best thing that we could deploy would be a hackcenter-like situation but that would lead to people putting their stuff all over the place, not being able to leave quickly when spontaneous work actually appears.
  • The behaviour of some fellow standby angels was rather odd. They were sitting there with headphones, not paying any attention to the requests of the standby coordinators, but apparently intending to just sit there unnoticed for hours. Please, folks, if you don't actually want to do any work, hang out elsewhere and leave room on the standby shifts (and the associated chairs) for those of us who actually want to help.

shirt colour

Thanks!

  • To offset the various negative comments I read here or even posted myself, I would like to point out that I was really impressed how well most things worked this year. It's amazing to see how "professionally" we handle everything these days. Thanks a ton to the teams, as well as all participants, for making the 36c3 the awesome experience that it was! <3
    • Yes, you're right there :) Well, most of the comments I see as constructive, not really negative. But i get your point, there is not enough positive feedback :) . I had really great days, thanks everybody for doing your great work. I cant wait for the next year!
  • I‘d like to chime in here that I am amazed, every year, how much better congress works compared to every other conference I‘ve seen. Everything just works. Thank you to everyone helping to make that happen! -Cfstras (talk) 16:25, 5 January 2020 (CET)

Water

  • I think there should be more places to refill water bottles, especially within the halls themselves. As it is, I think there was one refill station for the public and one for angels, total? This is a recipe for dehydration.
    • Last year, there were no refill stations at all, so I would call the current situation a vast improvement compared to prior congresses instead of a "recipe for dehydration". We are trying to provide as many stations as possible, but that is difficult for a number of reasons (mainly €€€).
    • 200% Improvement. Join the team to find the problems and solve them.
    • not a single water tap (in the washrooms e.g.) was reduced. So there was only MORE than before.
      • Tap water is perfectly fine and safe to drink in all of Germany. Apparently not all (international) guests know this.
    • There was a bar selling water in every hall or close by.

Sustainability

Add suggestions for improving the ressource footprint, emissions or anything related to making congress more ecological.

carpets

For some areas, e.g. About:Freedom, carpets were used, that get thrown away afterwards. It would be nice to have reusable carpets, or avoid them completely.

  • Would be nice, but reusable carpets that are suited for big events are very expensive and we would also need huge storage space for them. Also every congress is very custom and we cut the carpets always in shape for the custom spaces, that can't be done with reusable carpets.
    But the carpets that we are using are recyclable so maybe a solution would be to collect them separately and then send them to an recycling facility that makes sure that they get recycled appropriately.

Dish-washing stations

If people bring their own dishes for food, it would be really helpful to have place where they can be cleaned, so people will use them more often and reduce garbage.

  • There are actually rooms for dish washing next to the restroom areas in the halls (e.g. here in hall 3). I used these throughout the event. But the doors are unmarked and while not locked are usually closed. Maybe a sign on the doors would help? MentalShirt (talk)

Sticker sorting

The stickerboxes are often crowded and when searching through the flood, stickers often stick together. Having sorted stickerboxes could improve overview as well as reduce garbage.

  • sticker sorting is a very time-consuming work. maybe something like a sorted sticker room would be nice, where people can bring stacks of sorted sticker and take sticker without making a mess. i took one hole stickerbox with me from congress and it took ~3h to sort it with 2 people

Trash cans

I sometimes had a hard time finding trash cans. There should be more (e.g. at the bars there were no bins for all the beer caps)

  • at least two bars had a beer cap solution (exploitbar and späti)
    • did not shop there. I was mainly at memleak bar, there were no bins

Food

  • Am I the only one who thinks most of the food you can buy is extremely expensive and worst of all it tastes pretty gross? (Let alone the ethical implications regarding the origin of the ingredients and such) I know that the CCC can't influence the food stalls provided by Messe Leipzig but why are there no alternatives? How can we hack that? I guess there's some certification necessary but anything else? --Marcosinus (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2020 (CET)
    • You are not alone there. There are 2 stalls with with okayish food IMHO, everything else is junkfood at absurd prices. 6 euro for a small box overly fried noodles is ridiculous
    • I would assume Messe Leipzig has a contract with one or more catering companies which prohibits conference organizers to bring in other businesses selling food. Coffeenerds and food hacking base are not businesses, because people bring their own stuff. So bring your own stuff?
      • The assumption is correct. There are two possibilites: 1. Caterers can apply for a spot via the catering partner of the Messe (and there have been cases where new caterers have been accepted). 2. We could throw a lot of €€€ at the current caterers for them to not show up and then we would be able to decide ourselves about caterers, food choices, prices etc.
        • Is this about business/making money? I know a group who is working on a "donation" basis. You can pay what you want and they're a non-profit organization. Maybe this could be a backdoor? --Marcosinus (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2020 (CET)
  • Maybe the coffee stands can use larger coffee containers/machines (at least in the morning hours) to dispense more than the measly amount in paper cups for people who bring their own larger mugs.
  • Tables. We need more tables.

Merch

I know it's the same discussion every year, but there needs to be a way to hack the merch situation. If you want to be relatively sure to get the shirt/hoodie you want you are standing in line for multiple hours, which people with health issues just cant do. Plus you miss a lot of talks. Wouldn't it be at least possible to make a survey during the ticket order process to ask people what they will want to buy? Most sizes were gone even faster than at 35c3

  • Just sell the merch together with the ticket.
    • A ticket contains a voucher which allows one to buy merch. This is for the case that somebody else needs to collect the merch as well as for the business tickets. (Accounting might freak out otherwise)
    • People need to pay in advance for it so there's a better planning possible for the ccc and no risk in losses.
    • In return, it may could cost a little bit less.
    • It should not be possible to order more than ~2 pieces.
  • The merch could be handed out in different ways:
    • The merch is handed out at check-in
    • There's a merch stall where people can get their stuff. It's open like 2 hours 2 times every day.
  • On late afternoon of day 3, all merch which was not redeemed will be sold FCFS.
  • I know this is not perfect but maybe we could work on this?
  • --Marcosinus (talk) 16:15, 5 January 2020 (CET)

Engelsystem

  • The general opinion on the Engelsystem seems to be that it is getting increasingly difficult to use, primarily due to people signing up for shifts just to get a t-shirt or a voucher for the next Congress way before its actual due date (e.g. a shift for day 4 on day 1). Finding shifts that don't require special qualification has become near-impossible if you don't want to plan ahead for a very long time. Now, there are several things that can be done about this, but I would like to suggest a better UI for these kinds of shifts as the current one is - imho - not really suited for unsupervised coordination. Shifts with particularly high demand (surely you have data on this) should be created only a few hours (maybe even just one) before it takes place, which would make it much easier for interested first-time-angels like me to sign up for a shift. Additionally, there should be a much less cluttered view for the simple shifts that automatically respects the angels' qualifications and restrictions. Average users do not require the overview over everything and thus could ignore the huge horizontal table that contains every single shift there is. This could be done in a way that it presents you with shifts that take place in the near future where people are still missing, together with a short description of the job for which you currently have to click on the shift to see its entire details. And maybe lock people out from registering for their next shift while they are currently working, so a break is guaranteed and more people get the chance to be an angel. Other parts of the engelsystem could really use some more cleanup as well, especially the News tab. There, it doesn't get clear why some messages are highlighted and others aren't, and it includes messages to teams I myself am not a part of. The time it takes me to recognise that something is not meant for me/my angeltypes slows down the entire experience.

Noticed improvements

In honor of all the nice improvements made by PL and other folks

  • Teardown was noticable improved a lot. Thanks to better communication more people (tenfold!?) helped to get tables, chairs and other stuff moved and also the availability of pallet jacks was given. A Additional plus was the the presence of well informed coordinators during teardown, which also provided a fair ammount of vouchers for food and booze (2tschnunks while working, was god enough for me..).Gom (talk)